How to go about negotiating a lower price?
07-01-2015, 01:23 PM
#11
Basic rules of negotiation (I'm a lawyer FWIW):
1. The first one to talk loses. If the salesman asks you how much you are looking to spend, just ask him what he is willing to sell it for. Always put the ball in the other person's court if possible.
2. Negotiate a price on your truck first and your trade-in second. Whenever I was asked "will you be training in a vehicle" I'd just respond with "yes, and we can get to that after we hammer out the details on the truck's price." Every single person would respond with "ok, I understand." Never negotiate two aspects of the same deal at the same time - you will almost always lost on one or both.
3. Don't be afraid to walk out. When buying my wife's car a few years ago, the one we negotiated wasn't physically at the dealership as we had discussed, but, magically, a more expensive model was. I told the guy simply that we will only pay our negotiated price. He said no, so I literally said "well, you can go f--k yourself and hopefully you won't lie to your next sale" and walked out. The manager called me a few days later and asked what he could do to earn my sale and I said to stop calling because I don't play games like that.
4. Examine every price in great detail. When buying my wife's car I negotiated over the phone/internet and got the best deal I could (with free lifetime oil changes). When at the dealer he tried charging an extra $50 for the splash guards. I informed him that the price he quoted included splash guards. He asked if I was willing to lose the car over $50. I leaned close to him and asked him if he wanted to lose a sale over $50. $50 was knocked off the price. On my new F-150 the dealer tried charging me $99 for "fuel" - I said to either not fill it up (I'd bring my own gas can if necessary) or take off the charge. The took off the charge.
5. Make sure your trade-in is taken "above the line." In many states you do not have to pay sales tax on the value of your trade in. For example, if you have a $40,000 new vehicle and a $5,000 trade-in, you should pay taxes on $35,000. Some dealers will try to take advantage and do the sales tax on the $40,000 price then deduct the $5,000 at the end. If this happens, you will overpay sales tax on that $5,000.
6. Dress very unassuming. I always walk into a dealership with flannel shirts and old jeans. One lesson in life: if people think you have money, they will try to get it (including car salesmen).
7. Ask about holdbacks (which are pretty much cash bonuses paid to dealers for selling a vehicle) and ask to see the invoice. These two pieces of information can help you out.
8. Know EXACTLY what you want. When ordering my truck there were models on the lot that were close, but not exactly what I wanted. Whenever they asked if I would mind if _____ was _____ instead of _______ (such as a 23 gallon fuel tank instead of the 36 gallon fuel tank) I always responded with "I'd be happy to take that into consideration if the price is reflective of it." I ended up ordering my truck. It's also hard to negotiate unless you know exactly it is you want.
1. The first one to talk loses. If the salesman asks you how much you are looking to spend, just ask him what he is willing to sell it for. Always put the ball in the other person's court if possible.
2. Negotiate a price on your truck first and your trade-in second. Whenever I was asked "will you be training in a vehicle" I'd just respond with "yes, and we can get to that after we hammer out the details on the truck's price." Every single person would respond with "ok, I understand." Never negotiate two aspects of the same deal at the same time - you will almost always lost on one or both.
3. Don't be afraid to walk out. When buying my wife's car a few years ago, the one we negotiated wasn't physically at the dealership as we had discussed, but, magically, a more expensive model was. I told the guy simply that we will only pay our negotiated price. He said no, so I literally said "well, you can go f--k yourself and hopefully you won't lie to your next sale" and walked out. The manager called me a few days later and asked what he could do to earn my sale and I said to stop calling because I don't play games like that.
4. Examine every price in great detail. When buying my wife's car I negotiated over the phone/internet and got the best deal I could (with free lifetime oil changes). When at the dealer he tried charging an extra $50 for the splash guards. I informed him that the price he quoted included splash guards. He asked if I was willing to lose the car over $50. I leaned close to him and asked him if he wanted to lose a sale over $50. $50 was knocked off the price. On my new F-150 the dealer tried charging me $99 for "fuel" - I said to either not fill it up (I'd bring my own gas can if necessary) or take off the charge. The took off the charge.
5. Make sure your trade-in is taken "above the line." In many states you do not have to pay sales tax on the value of your trade in. For example, if you have a $40,000 new vehicle and a $5,000 trade-in, you should pay taxes on $35,000. Some dealers will try to take advantage and do the sales tax on the $40,000 price then deduct the $5,000 at the end. If this happens, you will overpay sales tax on that $5,000.
6. Dress very unassuming. I always walk into a dealership with flannel shirts and old jeans. One lesson in life: if people think you have money, they will try to get it (including car salesmen).
7. Ask about holdbacks (which are pretty much cash bonuses paid to dealers for selling a vehicle) and ask to see the invoice. These two pieces of information can help you out.
8. Know EXACTLY what you want. When ordering my truck there were models on the lot that were close, but not exactly what I wanted. Whenever they asked if I would mind if _____ was _____ instead of _______ (such as a 23 gallon fuel tank instead of the 36 gallon fuel tank) I always responded with "I'd be happy to take that into consideration if the price is reflective of it." I ended up ordering my truck. It's also hard to negotiate unless you know exactly it is you want.
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MNFX4eco (07-01-2015)
07-01-2015, 01:28 PM
#12
Senior Member
I really don's see where X plan or not makes any difference at all in regards' to the bold. Service department has no idea how good or bad of a deal you made when you bough the truck, if the sales person is a dink they will be a dink whether its X plan or not, if they are decent they will be decent whether X plan or not.
Its really not that hard to negotiate in reality today, there are so many sources available to find what invoice price is ETC you can know within a few hundred $$ of what the average dealer will bite on.
Also, unless you buy everything clean deal no trade then your still playing the game with the dealer anyway, just on the trade end of the deal instead......
I have had deals where it was less than 5 minutes to get the price I wanted after setting foot on the lot, other deals where I walked out of the place because they couldn't get there pricewise and a week later they call me to accept the deal. Other deals that never got finished and ended up with me threatening to call the cops, or turn the sales managers desk upside down if he didn't return my car keys to me in under 30 seconds.
07-01-2015, 01:41 PM
#13
Senior Member
Basic rules of negotiation (I'm a lawyer FWIW):
5. Make sure your trade-in is taken "above the line." In many states you do not have to pay sales tax on the value of your trade in. For example, if you have a $40,000 new vehicle and a $5,000 trade-in, you should pay taxes on $35,000. Some dealers will try to take advantage and do the sales tax on the $40,000 price then deduct the $5,000 at the end. If this happens, you will overpay sales tax on that $5,000.
5. Make sure your trade-in is taken "above the line." In many states you do not have to pay sales tax on the value of your trade in. For example, if you have a $40,000 new vehicle and a $5,000 trade-in, you should pay taxes on $35,000. Some dealers will try to take advantage and do the sales tax on the $40,000 price then deduct the $5,000 at the end. If this happens, you will overpay sales tax on that $5,000.
On the bold, is it even legal for a dealer to do that in a state that does not charge tax on the trade value??? Seems like that would be easy win to take care of in court if they did it?
07-01-2015, 01:45 PM
#14
If you notice, when you negotiate, they have line items and write numbers in the different lines, then you settle on the agreed-upon bottom line figure. The actual sales tax will be remitted to the state based on the sale price of the vehicle. If they tax your trade-in, that's not "sales tax" and you agreed to the price, so it's an extra lining in the dealer's pocket.
07-01-2015, 02:10 PM
#15
I have mainly delt with one of the Chevrolet dealers and one of the Ford dealers in town.They both know me well and I go directly too the Sales Manager and cut out the salesman.I basically pit one against the other and tell them what I want to pay.They both know I have bought or leased a lot of vehicles and want my business.This time around Ford beat the GM price on a comparable truck.I ordered mine and was in no hurry.THEY always try to get you to buy off the lot and make a deal quickly ,so you don't walk.I let them know i'm not in a hurry and won't be put into something I don't want or need.I let them Know what I am looking for [prebuilt truck on website] and my terms on lease or buy.They never try to entice me with gimmicks as they know I am a seasoned buyer.I laugh at these weekens sales,etc gimmicks as I walway usually beat those prices.A lot has to do with what the manufacture offers in incentives as well as they can only do so much as corporate controls most pricing.
07-01-2015, 02:12 PM
#16
Senior Member
Yes and no. Technically, stores collect sales tax on behalf of the state, then remit the sales tax to the state in quarterly payments (at least in most states around here).
If you notice, when you negotiate, they have line items and write numbers in the different lines, then you settle on the agreed-upon bottom line figure. The actual sales tax will be remitted to the state based on the sale price of the vehicle. If they tax your trade-in, that's not "sales tax" and you agreed to the price, so it's an extra lining in the dealer's pocket.
If you notice, when you negotiate, they have line items and write numbers in the different lines, then you settle on the agreed-upon bottom line figure. The actual sales tax will be remitted to the state based on the sale price of the vehicle. If they tax your trade-in, that's not "sales tax" and you agreed to the price, so it's an extra lining in the dealer's pocket.
Well that's pretty shady, I figured they would pay the state correctly though!!
Another thing to add to that list above, ALWAYS have a calculator (smart phone, ETC) and note pad on hand to check the sales persons math as you work a deal. More than once I have caught "errors" that were in the dealers favor by the time you get to the bottom price on the sheet that you end up agreeing to.
07-01-2015, 04:11 PM
#17
Senior Member
Walk in, say the other local Ford dealer offered to sell me a truck at invoice minus hold back but they did not have the exact truck I wanted. Match that and I will buy today. I paid invoice-$1600-$750 rebate. And I got blue book trade in plus $500 for my trade.
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MNFX4eco (07-01-2015)
07-01-2015, 04:36 PM
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Does paying the invoice price apply for leasing too or is that a whole different ballgame?
07-01-2015, 04:59 PM
#19
Senior Member
I really don's see where X plan or not makes any difference at all in regards' to the bold. Service department has no idea how good or bad of a deal you made when you bough the truck, if the sales person is a dink they will be a dink whether its X plan or not, if they are decent they will be decent whether X plan or not.
I'm not saying let yourself get ripped off, but if you allow a reasonable profit and don't grind for every last penny, it can go a long ways toward building a good relationship for the future.
