Grind up another pound.
06-07-2016, 08:44 AM
#1
This may take a while to explain....bear with me...please. There's just 2,400 miles left on the bumper-to-bumper warranty and I'm worried about a transfer case problem.
Me and my 14 screw boost towed my cargo trailer down 50 miles of interstate and county road to a farm where I used 4L to creep into a moist, grassy field.
After unloading, the truck sat in the field, switched off for six hours, still in 4L.
When I went to move the truck, the grass was much drier, and I figured I'd better put it back in 4H or even 2H. So I started it up, put it in neutral and twisted the **** to 4H. After the indicator showed 4H, I put it into D. But I didn't feel anything grab.
The "delayed shift" warning appeared, so I clicked OK and gave it a little gas to roll forward. The truck didn't move at all.
I thought to bump it forward a little in 4L, but before I could touch anything, the speedo climbed towards 15MPH and the truck let loose with a frightfully loud, high-pitched grinding of gears. Heads turned from hundreds of feet away. I banged into neutral, and immediately the grinding stopped.
I worked through the sequence a few times, even switched the truck off and on again. I could get 4L to engage and move the truck, but any attempt to get into 4H or 2H was rewarded with no motion, and sometimes (but not always) the angry gnashing of gears.
After maybe a dozen attempts over 15 minutes, the truck dropped into 2H and moved normally. As I was winding down the long gravel driveway, I took it into and out of 4H twice without any problems.
Can someone help me understand what all this was about? Also, do I need to get the truck into the dealer for a look at the transfer case.....before it hits 36K? And if so, what do I tell them to look for?
Thanks!
Me and my 14 screw boost towed my cargo trailer down 50 miles of interstate and county road to a farm where I used 4L to creep into a moist, grassy field.
After unloading, the truck sat in the field, switched off for six hours, still in 4L.
When I went to move the truck, the grass was much drier, and I figured I'd better put it back in 4H or even 2H. So I started it up, put it in neutral and twisted the **** to 4H. After the indicator showed 4H, I put it into D. But I didn't feel anything grab.
The "delayed shift" warning appeared, so I clicked OK and gave it a little gas to roll forward. The truck didn't move at all.
I thought to bump it forward a little in 4L, but before I could touch anything, the speedo climbed towards 15MPH and the truck let loose with a frightfully loud, high-pitched grinding of gears. Heads turned from hundreds of feet away. I banged into neutral, and immediately the grinding stopped.
I worked through the sequence a few times, even switched the truck off and on again. I could get 4L to engage and move the truck, but any attempt to get into 4H or 2H was rewarded with no motion, and sometimes (but not always) the angry gnashing of gears.
After maybe a dozen attempts over 15 minutes, the truck dropped into 2H and moved normally. As I was winding down the long gravel driveway, I took it into and out of 4H twice without any problems.
Can someone help me understand what all this was about? Also, do I need to get the truck into the dealer for a look at the transfer case.....before it hits 36K? And if so, what do I tell them to look for?
Thanks!
Last edited by timtrace; 06-07-2016 at 08:54 AM.
06-18-2016, 02:29 AM
#2
hard to say what happened exactly. 4x4 low is probably what needs to be used in the fields or 2wd. 4x4 high probably put too much pressure on the 4x4 gear system as its not to be used on dry traction areas.
Was the trailer you had still attached at the time?
Sounds as though maybe both tires tried to spin and couldn't then broke free being in a higher gear but caused grinding like it would if you use 4x4 on dry pavement, like when turning in 4x4. Speedometer jumping in speed was probably the sudden wheel spin that occurred when whatever the truck was stuck on broke free. Since I believe the sensor is tied to wheel rotation. 4x4 high anticipates usage of higher speeds with slippage if there was no slippage and you did not have momentum and gave it gas, the truck was trying to move but must of been stuck real good not having the same torque you would get from 4x4low.
Picture a mountain bike as you shift to the larger gears it gets harder to pedal. If you try to start in a higher gear you won't be able to go unless you suddenly had more weight or force to push down the pedal suddenly. Next thing you know you would be going really fast if you could move the pedal down that fast that quick. Picture the engine/gas pedal being a person pedaling, that added push you would suddenly gain instant momentum when the gearing was difficult to get started. Course you start in first gear on a mountain bike you gain plenty of mechanical advantage, just not effective using your energy long term, so 4x4 low you get slow but all the power needed to move nice and easy.
4x4 low is often used in cases of snow/offroad sand, also perhaps best for your scenario or 2wd. Reference guide on 15' model mine says 4x4 low is 3mph or less.
Hard to say what or if damage was done, but it probably did cause some wear on something. Not sure what basis the transfer case works on whether its all mechanical or allows for slippage, but it could have chipped a tooth or few off the gear.
Was the trailer you had still attached at the time?
Sounds as though maybe both tires tried to spin and couldn't then broke free being in a higher gear but caused grinding like it would if you use 4x4 on dry pavement, like when turning in 4x4. Speedometer jumping in speed was probably the sudden wheel spin that occurred when whatever the truck was stuck on broke free. Since I believe the sensor is tied to wheel rotation. 4x4 high anticipates usage of higher speeds with slippage if there was no slippage and you did not have momentum and gave it gas, the truck was trying to move but must of been stuck real good not having the same torque you would get from 4x4low.
Picture a mountain bike as you shift to the larger gears it gets harder to pedal. If you try to start in a higher gear you won't be able to go unless you suddenly had more weight or force to push down the pedal suddenly. Next thing you know you would be going really fast if you could move the pedal down that fast that quick. Picture the engine/gas pedal being a person pedaling, that added push you would suddenly gain instant momentum when the gearing was difficult to get started. Course you start in first gear on a mountain bike you gain plenty of mechanical advantage, just not effective using your energy long term, so 4x4 low you get slow but all the power needed to move nice and easy.
4x4 low is often used in cases of snow/offroad sand, also perhaps best for your scenario or 2wd. Reference guide on 15' model mine says 4x4 low is 3mph or less.
Hard to say what or if damage was done, but it probably did cause some wear on something. Not sure what basis the transfer case works on whether its all mechanical or allows for slippage, but it could have chipped a tooth or few off the gear.
06-18-2016, 10:34 AM
#3
Thanks for the thoughtful post.
I've since been able to recreate the failure scenario every time I come out of 4L. The first time was with the trailer attached, all after that without.
Here's the steps taken...
1. Activate 4H at 10 MPH, continue straight about 20 yards, stop.
2. Shift to N, activate 4L, wait for indicator, shift to D, roll straight forward about 10 yards, stop.
3. Shift to N, activate 4H, wait for indicator, shift to D.....
......and the truck won't move. The speedo starts climbing but RPMs do not. I hear a quiet whirring sound, as if the gears were lightly touching but not trying to mesh . Then after about five seconds, grrrrrrrrrrrrind bang, and the speedo drops to 0. Now the truck will move, so I bring it up to 10 MPH and activate 2H. Rinse, repeat.
I also posted this on the EB forum. A member said he's seen the same thing with his truck. A Ford rep jumped in and recommended a dealer visit. I've spoken with my dealer's service manager and made an appointment for Monday morning.
I've since been able to recreate the failure scenario every time I come out of 4L. The first time was with the trailer attached, all after that without.
Here's the steps taken...
1. Activate 4H at 10 MPH, continue straight about 20 yards, stop.
2. Shift to N, activate 4L, wait for indicator, shift to D, roll straight forward about 10 yards, stop.
3. Shift to N, activate 4H, wait for indicator, shift to D.....
......and the truck won't move. The speedo starts climbing but RPMs do not. I hear a quiet whirring sound, as if the gears were lightly touching but not trying to mesh . Then after about five seconds, grrrrrrrrrrrrind bang, and the speedo drops to 0. Now the truck will move, so I bring it up to 10 MPH and activate 2H. Rinse, repeat.
I also posted this on the EB forum. A member said he's seen the same thing with his truck. A Ford rep jumped in and recommended a dealer visit. I've spoken with my dealer's service manager and made an appointment for Monday morning.
06-18-2016, 10:37 AM
#4
I should add that I've only done this twice more, because clearly something ain't right and I don't want to destroy anything. Also, subsequent attempts were done on asphalt in a straight line.
06-18-2016, 02:27 PM
#5
It almost sounds as though being in 4wd high wound up the transfer case somehow, like a wind up toy and somehow being transferred into the 4low mode.
4wd in general should only be used in slippery conditions, in case of 4low its so slow with lots of power that it shouldnt damage anything but should only be used for added traction when needed.
I think if you were in the snow you likely would not hear any terrible noises, maybe a slight noise from 4x4 engagement but I wouldnt expect grinding or any excessive noise.
If the gear lost a tooth or few the transfer from 4h to 4l could expierence a complete skip of space then suddenly banging into a tooth on the gear that is still there. I think I would take it in regardless to have it looked at. Repaired under warranty or not if you plan to use it better to try under warranty.
4wd in general should only be used in slippery conditions, in case of 4low its so slow with lots of power that it shouldnt damage anything but should only be used for added traction when needed.
I think if you were in the snow you likely would not hear any terrible noises, maybe a slight noise from 4x4 engagement but I wouldnt expect grinding or any excessive noise.
If the gear lost a tooth or few the transfer from 4h to 4l could expierence a complete skip of space then suddenly banging into a tooth on the gear that is still there. I think I would take it in regardless to have it looked at. Repaired under warranty or not if you plan to use it better to try under warranty.
06-20-2016, 05:52 AM
#6
Dropped my truck off at the dealer for service. Here's a video taken at the dealer lot, with the problem caught on tape at 1:24 as I shift into "D" coming out of 4L into 4H. Hopefully it will behave the same way for the tech in the morning.
06-20-2016, 01:43 PM
#7
Thats crazy to have that happen. Sounds like when it shifts at the end there its slipping past gears and gets louder as it gets slowed down trying to catch the teeth on the gears. It may not happen all the time if all the gears teeth arent bad only when it hits the right spot i would think that would happen, appears to be the case in that video not happening everytime. Well hopefully warranty covers it and they figure out what caused it.
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06-20-2016, 01:45 PM
#8
The dealer called a little while ago --- they weren't able to duplicate. I said, "Oh, yeah? Check out this video I made in front of your shop last night." Haven't heard back yet LOL.
As for it not happening every time in that video, I only did it once from 4L to 4H. The progression was 2H->4H->4L->4H(grrrrrrrind-bang)->2H
As for it not happening every time in that video, I only did it once from 4L to 4H. The progression was 2H->4H->4L->4H(grrrrrrrind-bang)->2H
Last edited by timtrace; 06-20-2016 at 01:47 PM.
06-21-2016, 12:58 AM
#9
They may have difficulty replicating it if its a couple bad teeth on one of the gears like it sounds. Maybe that is why it doesn't happen everytime. It would seem that a gear missing wouldn't hurt if it already had momentum in the right spot. Much like my mountain bike example, however if you switched gears on a mountain bike missing a couple of teeth you could have a couple of issues on your hand a sudden slip to catch a tooth on a gear or it jumps track altogether.
Again no expert here, but seems like it could be a possibility, hopefully they can get it fixed and you can have it done under warranty.
Again no expert here, but seems like it could be a possibility, hopefully they can get it fixed and you can have it done under warranty.
