Marcusa32

Members,

I am in desperate need of your help, experience and guidance.

I am experiencing a horrific rattle during start up, only for a few seconds but it sounds like someone is going wild with a chainsaw inside the engine block.

Here is a brief history on the truck:

108k miles -
PROBLEM - Rattle on start up, misfires, excessive fuel use, generally unhappy engine. Broken chain tensioner arm and broken timing chain guide.
CURE - timing gear replacement (Crank gear, Chains, Guides, Tensioner arms, both cam phasers and one tensioner) ford didn't have the drivers side tensioner in stock and I couldn't wait the 2 weeks to get it, old tensioner seemed fine. I also replaced the water pump while I was in there.

115k -
PROBLEM - Rattle on start up, misfires. Broken guide and tensioner arm drivers side
CURE - timing gear replacement (timing chain guide, tensioner arm and tensioner drivers side )

133k - (current)
PROBLEM - Rattle on start up/Rattle while under medium load, misfires and cam timing errors

TRIED - timing gear replacement (tensioners, guides and arms) and the rattle is still there, if not worse than before. The timing had jumped a tooth so that was reset and does seem to have fixed the misfires and cam timing errors. I am concerned about the rattle under load too as its never done that before. Its almost like the tensioners aren't getting the oil pressure they need but what would cause this?

Any help out there, I'm desperate now

Billyonaire

I would suspect that oil isn't flowing through the motor right away... Does it sound like someone is throwing rocks at the front of the motor? My guess is your oil screen may be clogged or gunked up.. So your timing chain tensioners aren't getting the proper pressure they require and the noise you hear is your timing chains slapping the timing cover... You said you replaced the timing chain/guides/tensioners 20k miles ago? Has this problem just started or has it done it since the repairs? Also, when you took the valve covers off and timing cover off, how did the motor look? Any sludge? Sludge will kill these engines because they need oil pressure to operate, so gunk will cause the motor to not get properly lubricated... Sorry you are going through this.. I feel your pain.. I just lost a motor to sludge and had to replace it.. I hope you can figure it out..

Marcusa32

yes, that's the exact noise!

Technically I have just changed the Guides, Arms, Tensioners less than 100miles ago and the noise is now worse than ever.

We change oil every 3000miles here due to the hot weather etc. but the inside of the valve covers and top of the motor looked perfectly clean. That doesn't mean, like you mentioned, that the oil pickup screen isn't blocked. is there anyway to reach it from the front of the engine with the timing cover off or would that be an oil pan off type of job. I was considering removing the timing cover again, removing the tensioners and blowing compressed air back up the galley to see if that helped

PerryB

Most likely your oil pump screen is plugged with debris, much of which probably came from the first guide failure. Drop the pan and look.

Marcusa32

tips for dropping the oil pan? (2004 SCREW 4x4)

Billyonaire

If the motor is clean, then yes I would drop the pan.. I have never had to do this but I am sure there are all kinds of write ups on this forum about dropping the oil pan... It is a bit of a pain from what I hear but if the motor is clean, then this is something definitely worth trying. While you are in there, clean the pan very well, replace the gasket, and consider replacing the entire oil pump and screen, as it is a pain to get to. The pump and oil pickup is only about $100 or so... I would drop the pan, look at the screen and see if it is gunked up... If it is.. then go on and replace it, and see if that fixed your problem. Good luck!


NOTE: I just noticed you said you only replaced one tensioner.. There is a possibility that the other tensioner has failed. They have gaskets on the back side of them. If those gaskets fail, you will get this same problem.. Are you throwing any codes?

tareed94

I'd advise dropping the pan as there is likely a piece of the guide in there. And let me tell you, that is a feat in itself on a 4x4. You'll have to remove the bolts allowing the front axle to drop down, then you'll be able to access a little better. The oil pan will have to be worked out carefully after this as the clearances are still pretty tight at this point. If you don't drop the axle you'll never get it out and back in in one piece. I've dropped the pan twice now. Once during the initial phaser job, the second time is because the pan was leaking even though I followed all torque specs, torque patterns, cleaned everything and put RTV where it was supposed to be. Did it all the second time and it STILL leaks... If you've got access to a vehicle lift it would make the job significantly easier as you won't be laying on your back trying to do it all.

Marcusa32

ok, sounds like a bitch but i'll see what i can do. I already have a new oil pump on the shelf that i havent got round to installing

ive also got hold of a pair of 98/99 f150 tensioners, the iron ones. i keep hearing people say they're better. The only thing is that they come with some sort of adapter plate(?) or oil restriction plate, im assuming this needs to be installed between the block and the tensioner?

tareed94

I have never heard of doing that... Personally I'd advise against using something from a different engine.

Marcusa32

Can anyone tell me what the metal plate is for in the picture? it would seem to restrict oil flow into the tensioner. Do I use it or not?