P0016 Eco Timing Chain?
01-26-2015, 07:27 PM
#41
Hey Guys,
I am not an Ecoboost owner, but I do own a 3.7 N/A F150 and have been reading these timing chain threads with interest / concern. With that said, I am a Manufacturing Engineer with a BSME and enjoy participating in these types of discussions. I am a long-time drag racer and have built my share of engines over the years, so I think I have some hands-on experience that may add value.
In my opinion, the chain tensioner should be able to easily take-up .281'" of chain stretch as sketched early in this thread. That is not a ton of stretch for a long chain (think about how much motocross bike chains stretch and how often they need adjustment). Seeing that the noise returned after only 2000 miles makes me believe that a lot of the wear could be on all of the sprockets. Sprocket wear could definitely add a huge amount of slack to the chain since you have multiple sprockets in the timing chain system. Sprocket wear results in changing the diameter on which the chain rotates. If you decide to tear it apart again, I would buy a couple of new sprockets before the tear-down and measure them against the sprockets on your truck to see how much wear exists. If you find that the sprockets are severely worn, I would suspect the root cause may be any of the following:
1.) poor or contaminated lubrication of the sprockets
2.) poor choice in materials used for the sprockets
3.) inadequate heat-treat or hardening process during the manufacturing of the sprockets.
4.) Any combination of the first three items. (multiple root causes)
I hope this helps add to the discussion and look forward to seeing how this turns-out.
I am not an Ecoboost owner, but I do own a 3.7 N/A F150 and have been reading these timing chain threads with interest / concern. With that said, I am a Manufacturing Engineer with a BSME and enjoy participating in these types of discussions. I am a long-time drag racer and have built my share of engines over the years, so I think I have some hands-on experience that may add value.
In my opinion, the chain tensioner should be able to easily take-up .281'" of chain stretch as sketched early in this thread. That is not a ton of stretch for a long chain (think about how much motocross bike chains stretch and how often they need adjustment). Seeing that the noise returned after only 2000 miles makes me believe that a lot of the wear could be on all of the sprockets. Sprocket wear could definitely add a huge amount of slack to the chain since you have multiple sprockets in the timing chain system. Sprocket wear results in changing the diameter on which the chain rotates. If you decide to tear it apart again, I would buy a couple of new sprockets before the tear-down and measure them against the sprockets on your truck to see how much wear exists. If you find that the sprockets are severely worn, I would suspect the root cause may be any of the following:
1.) poor or contaminated lubrication of the sprockets
2.) poor choice in materials used for the sprockets
3.) inadequate heat-treat or hardening process during the manufacturing of the sprockets.
4.) Any combination of the first three items. (multiple root causes)
I hope this helps add to the discussion and look forward to seeing how this turns-out.
01-26-2015, 07:59 PM
#42
To add to my last post, if the sprockets are not worn and the chain tensioner is not fully extended (out of travel), I would start looking at why the chain tensioner is not holding tension after the engine is turned-off, or why it may not be receiving adequate oil pressure to fully tension the chain. It's a process of elimination when you have it apart, which requires a lot of checks and inspection.
01-26-2015, 11:12 PM
#43
International man of Myst
Hey Guys,
I am not an Ecoboost owner, but I do own a 3.7 N/A F150 and have been reading these timing chain threads with interest / concern. With that said, I am a Manufacturing Engineer with a BSME and enjoy participating in these types of discussions. I am a long-time drag racer and have built my share of engines over the years, so I think I have some hands-on experience that may add value.
In my opinion, the chain tensioner should be able to easily take-up .281'" of chain stretch as sketched early in this thread. That is not a ton of stretch for a long chain (think about how much motocross bike chains stretch and how often they need adjustment). Seeing that the noise returned after only 2000 miles makes me believe that a lot of the wear could be on all of the sprockets. Sprocket wear could definitely add a huge amount of slack to the chain since you have multiple sprockets in the timing chain system. Sprocket wear results in changing the diameter on which the chain rotates. If you decide to tear it apart again, I would buy a couple of new sprockets before the tear-down and measure them against the sprockets on your truck to see how much wear exists. If you find that the sprockets are severely worn, I would suspect the root cause may be any of the following:
1.) poor or contaminated lubrication of the sprockets
2.) poor choice in materials used for the sprockets
3.) inadequate heat-treat or hardening process during the manufacturing of the sprockets.
4.) Any combination of the first three items. (multiple root causes)
I hope this helps add to the discussion and look forward to seeing how this turns-out.
I am not an Ecoboost owner, but I do own a 3.7 N/A F150 and have been reading these timing chain threads with interest / concern. With that said, I am a Manufacturing Engineer with a BSME and enjoy participating in these types of discussions. I am a long-time drag racer and have built my share of engines over the years, so I think I have some hands-on experience that may add value.
In my opinion, the chain tensioner should be able to easily take-up .281'" of chain stretch as sketched early in this thread. That is not a ton of stretch for a long chain (think about how much motocross bike chains stretch and how often they need adjustment). Seeing that the noise returned after only 2000 miles makes me believe that a lot of the wear could be on all of the sprockets. Sprocket wear could definitely add a huge amount of slack to the chain since you have multiple sprockets in the timing chain system. Sprocket wear results in changing the diameter on which the chain rotates. If you decide to tear it apart again, I would buy a couple of new sprockets before the tear-down and measure them against the sprockets on your truck to see how much wear exists. If you find that the sprockets are severely worn, I would suspect the root cause may be any of the following:
1.) poor or contaminated lubrication of the sprockets
2.) poor choice in materials used for the sprockets
3.) inadequate heat-treat or hardening process during the manufacturing of the sprockets.
4.) Any combination of the first three items. (multiple root causes)
I hope this helps add to the discussion and look forward to seeing how this turns-out.
01-27-2015, 01:13 PM
#45
Senior Member
I have a hunting trip coming up and as soon as I get back from that mine will be going in for the P0016 error code and sluggish acceleration. What I find odd is that acceleration will be sluggish and then if I turn the truck off and back on the sluggishness will go away. Regardless after I return from my hunting trip Feb. 9th I'll be contacting my local Ford dealer and taking it in. I have just under 50,000 miles on it and an extended warranty to 70,000 miles so we'll see what Ford does.
01-27-2015, 01:23 PM
#46
Senior Member
Your truck is running in limp mode and by turning it off you are resetting the computer. The truck will run in limp mode without a CEL. At first, restarting will be good for the trip then as things get worse you'll have to restart it multiple times. At the end I was just putting the truck into neutral and restarting it while doing 55. It's not long after that point when the CEL will come on and you are guaranteed to have met the requirements for the TSB.
01-28-2015, 11:22 AM
#47
Senior Member
Your truck is running in limp mode and by turning it off you are resetting the computer. The truck will run in limp mode without a CEL. At first, restarting will be good for the trip then as things get worse you'll have to restart it multiple times. At the end I was just putting the truck into neutral and restarting it while doing 55. It's not long after that point when the CEL will come on and you are guaranteed to have met the requirements for the TSB.
My CEL is on and I've confirmed with Torque Pro it's the P0016 error. I just couldn't afford to take it into the dealer and be without my truck for this hunting trip I have coming up. It's only a 2 hour drive to the hunting camp so I can handle dealing with the limp mode for a little bit longer.
01-28-2015, 02:48 PM
#48
Senior Member
My CEL is on and I've confirmed with Torque Pro it's the P0016 error. I just couldn't afford to take it into the dealer and be without my truck for this hunting trip I have coming up. It's only a 2 hour drive to the hunting camp so I can handle dealing with the limp mode for a little bit longer.
01-29-2015, 09:18 PM
#50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies with more thoughts. I have thought and thought about this until I am tired of thinking about why, after replacing all this stuff, it still make this noise!
I really thought that Ford would have figured this out now. Not because they are nice folks that want to help us out....but because this has to be starting to cost them money as a lot of the people I read about are having this done under warranty! That's got to be getting expensive.
Is there anyone that has replaced the VCT's along with chains, tensioner, guides and still had the noise come back? I know one guy on the forum here did replace VCT's when he did his (which was right about the same time I did mine). I just PM'd him last week and he is still running noise free.
I really thought that Ford would have figured this out now. Not because they are nice folks that want to help us out....but because this has to be starting to cost them money as a lot of the people I read about are having this done under warranty! That's got to be getting expensive.
Is there anyone that has replaced the VCT's along with chains, tensioner, guides and still had the noise come back? I know one guy on the forum here did replace VCT's when he did his (which was right about the same time I did mine). I just PM'd him last week and he is still running noise free.