Annaleigh

I thought you guys had a E series forum on here but i haven't seen it yet.. So i hope this is the right place to post this question,,

I have a 1988 E150 w/302/AOD transmission. 105,000k. It is pretty much an original Mark III conversion van. The van had sat for around 14 to 15 years and was garage kept. I have had it for about 5 months now and just about have everything running right except for the fact that is seems to be running hot, or hotter then it should be for this time of year..

HEre is what i have done. Changed the thermostat to a 195F. Changed the serpentine belt and tensioner, new heavy duty fan clutch, all new hoses, and had the radiator boiled and rodded out.

I have only had the van for about 4 months now and when I first got the van the stock temp gauge was running in the middle of "NORMAL".
Within a couple of days the needle was pointing to mid way between the M and A. At that point I changed the thermostat to a NAPA 195F and changed the temp sending unit.




Once I finished that and went for a drive on the interstate, the temp needle was showing even hotter staying mostly at the L and the next to last line. .





I know there is a voltage regulator behind the instrument panel and was told that might need to be replaced as the oil gauge needle runs up to the A when the engine is cold.After the engine is up to temp, the oil pressure gauge reads around the R and when sitting at a light,the O.

Instead of changing the voltage regulator, I installed a cheep sunpro mechanical water temp gauge.
Keeping in mind that the temps here in GA have been in the 30's and 40's, the temp seems to run around 191 to 195 around town. The problem seems to be on the interstate when it kicks into overdrive and am pulling a grade, the temp will pretty quickly go op to 200 or a little over. If I shift it to 3rd, it will quickly drop back down to 195

The other day It was around 60 outside and I took the van for a drive on the interstate and the gauge read 205 at one point.
I am wondering if the cheap sumpro gauge could also be bad.. When I pull off the interstate and come to a stop at the top of the off ramp, the gauge is reading 200. As soon as I start off when the light turns green, the temp instantly falls to 195 or a bit lower it i sit a little longer.
If I am cursing around town and say the temp is 195 and i park and shut the engine off, it slowly starts to rise as it should.If I wait say one minute and start the engine again it instantly (very fast) drop to about 190.
Since having the radiator cleaned out, I have not tried connecting the oem dash gauge back up. So I don't know if I have a coolant flow problem that will show up come summer time or if I have a bad sumpro gauge, or perhaps the instrument cluster voltage regulator is bad.

If the mechanical gauge is correct.. once I top a hill and start back down or am on a flat, the temp goes back down to 195

Someone suggested I had a blocked coolant passage from the van sitting so long and that I would have to tear the engine down to fix it.

Sorry if this got very long, i was just trying to give as much info as possible.
Now if i remember correctly I have seen the gauge go up to 200 while in 3rd gear, pulling a small hill, running around 35, then coming to a stop at a light. As soon as I started off it immediately dropped back to 195.

The only other thing I can think of that I haven't figured out yet is: Around town when slowing down from say 40mph, once it reaches about 35 mph, I feel something like the timing retarding, almost like a downshift to second, but it is not. once down to 25mph, what ever it is releases. I am wondering if there could be something in the timing..

Thanks
Anna

Chris_1

iTrader: (1)

Not sure about all your issues but for temp things don't sound too too serious. The thermostat is designed to not let the engine cool down until it gets to 195 so that the engine will be hot enough to run efficiently. I think Ford originally installed 192 thermostats in those engines, but 195 is in the ballpark.
You can expect it to get a little hotter than that occasionally ; like climbing a hill; so 5 degrees hotter is not a panic situation.
It is strange though that Interstate speeds (lots of airflow, but lower rpm's in O/D) as well as that new fan clutch at idle aren't keeping it cooler - that makes me wonder if the water pump is working as efficiently as it could be at lower rpm's. Note that when you shifted down and made the rpm's climb, it got cooler.
That might be worth considering.

Try comparing your heat fluctuations to your rpm fluctuations.

nrivera04

I would suggest checking the water pump... It's possible the impeller has corroded sitting over time. With the engine COLD, remove the cap then crank the van. Allow it to come up to temp and thermostat to open, then see if water is flowing in the radiator. Alternatively, you can squeeze the upper hose once temp is reached to feel for flow. Be careful as the hose will be hot to the touch and you might push a little coolant out of the rad if the cap is off.

fomoco998

Aluminum radiators don't clean good by boiling and rodding. Your problem sounds like radiator flow. System flush might help.

Annaleigh

Yes it should run cooler at highway speeds and in overdrive...
On a flat it will maintain 195 or a little lower on the highway.
It is not aluminum radiator, it is copper and brass. The shop took it apart and rodded out the passages, vatted it, put it back together, and said it was in good shape. They did say it was pretty clogged up when they started.

I too have wondered about the water pump. It does seem that if in OD, at low RPMs', pulling up hill, if it has low flow, that it would run hotter.
I have not attempted to remove the pump because it may be the orignal and when removing the T-stat, one of the bolts broke off slush with the housing. They were corroded to the aluminum housing. After the first one broke I went ahead and just broke the thermostat housing at the other ear. The second bolt came right out and was not seized into the block.
A friend sent me some pics of what he had to do to remove his pump. Two bolts had broken off and so he took a drammel and cut the water pump housing around each bolt before trying to remove them.. I was hoping to avoid any of that..

I don't understand why the mechanical gauge drops so rapidly. It seems to be very sensitive. When I cut the engine off the temperature normally rises to about 210f. If I wait say, 5 minutes, instantly once the engine is started, the gauge needle drops to say 180.. It isll do that within 2 seconds of releasing the ignition switch.

I haven't done a formal flush yer but the PO must have done one just before putting it up for sale. I have dumped out the coolant 3 times now. The first time it had been driven maybe 200 miles. I drained it into clear plastic jugs and the first time I drained it, it looked like the jug on the left. The second time was the jug on the right, knowing I was going to flush it again, I hadn't added antifreeze.
<a href="http://s472.photobucket.com/user/Annaleigh_123/media/WP_20151231_17_39_01_Pro.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/Annaleigh_123/WP_20151231_17_39_01_Pro.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo WP_20151231_17_39_01_Pro.jpg"/></a>

I also did a combustion leak test which checked out good. I started with the engine cold and let it heat up to temp testing along the way. When I finished I took the tester to the tail pipe and tried it there to see if the fluid was still good and it was.. it didn't turn yellow or green but did turn clear.
<a href="http://s472.photobucket.com/user/Annaleigh_123/media/WP_20151231_17_26_57_Pro.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/Annaleigh_123/WP_20151231_17_26_57_Pro.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo WP_20151231_17_26_57_Pro.jpg"/></a>

I ordered a NOS Motorcraft OEM 192F thermostat and plan on trying that next. I have had bad luck with after market stats. I have a 85 e150 and a week after changing the T-stat, the new one went bad and I had to replace it. So this time I just ordered the NOS stat.. I also have a new cap.

I am thinking:
1 The cheap mechanical gauge might not be working right.
2 The water pump impeller might be corroded.
3 One or more coolant passage might be blocked.
4 perhaps it is running rich since the gas mileage sucks, about 8mpg.
5 Something is off with thew timing.

Again when costing down in speed, between 34 and 25 mph it feels like the timing is maybe, retarding? Another way to describe the feeling would be like an engine brake on a big truck but not as hard. It is not a down shift feeling, it's more of a drag on the engine.
So I am thinking if that is not normal and something is wrong with the timing around that RPM, could it cause a problem in overdrive on the interstate. If I understand correctly, if the timing is off, that that can cause an engine to run hotter. But on a EFI system, I think the computer controls all of that?

sdmartin65

I would think any temps 210 and below this time of year are about right. I'd bet the fan clutch won't start to engage until you hit 225 to 230 range. I'd pop that needle off and reposition it, the problem seems more psychological. The needle on my 95 ran at the L with the cooling system working perfectly, I moved it to run at the O.

Annaleigh

For a stock 302 with aluminum intake, what is to hot? I like spending time in the mountains during the summer months. What would be acceptable temps when climbing mountains in hot weather?
I have never heard the fan clutch kick in at higher speeds. It is a new heavy duty clutch from NAPA and I hear it run till it kicks out at 35 mph.
The specs dont say what temp it is supposed to kick in at...

sdmartin65

I'm right in the middle of a similar issue and have done some research online. The internet consensus would be you are right on target with temps, gotta take everything with a grain of salt but it's what we've got to work with.

Annaleigh

This all started with the stock temp gauge reading too high.
Perhaps what I need to do for now is replace the new 195f Napa Thermostat with the Motorcraft OEM 192f that I ordered. Next replace the temp replacement NAPA temp sending unit with a OEM Motorctaft unit and see what the stock gauge reads. I found several threads that state that the factory gauge should be straight up, or just a little under when the temp is around 200f. Some say that the gauge should peg at 250f. So according to the mechanical gauge I installed, if everything is working properly, my needle on the stock gauge should be close to the middle of the scale, not at the next to the last line.
I have had poor luck with after market parts and when I changed the original temp sending unit, the needle moved up even higher. If I understand correctly, there are only 4 basic parts to the system. The sending unit, the IVR, the gauge, and the wiring. If the sending unit is not grounded good, it will read low or not at all. If the single wire was broken, it would not read at all. If it was grounded out, it would peg the needle. From what I have read, if the IVR is bad, normally all the gauges will be affected and normally read erratic.
My oil pressure gauge does seem to read a bit high when the engine is cold, going up to between the A and L, but drops to the middle of the O when the engine is hot at idle. When cruising on the interstate, it runs middle way. The fuel gauge pegs past full when the tank is full and doesn’t start dropping till I run about a 1/4 tank out. I dismissed that as the PO had changed the tank, sending unit, and pump just prior to my buying the van. I know some replacement floats have to be adjusted to read the correct level. The amp meter works fine so I hesitate to think it is the instrument voltage regulator. that would leave the actual gauge and the sending unit..

I would like to find out what the ohms should read on the temp sending unit when the engine temp is at 200f, that way I could verify the sending unit is working correctly. That would leave the gauge or IVR.. I think..
I will be curious to see what the difference is in temperature is as it warms up outside.
Next week it is supposed to be almost 65 one day.. I use the same test run as I am a couple miles from the interstate. From my exit to the next is mostly flat for 3 miles and the return trip has a truck lane going up hill for about 2 miles. So maybe if it never goes over 220f, I will be ok..

Thanks
Anna

Annaleigh

Well I did some testing today. I really haven't driven the van that far away from home since I purchased it due to worrying about the temperature. Today I took it on a 50 mile trip up the interstate. I live in the north GA foothills so we have lots of long upgrades. The temperature never went over 200f and it was 60f outside today. In the past it was 35 to 40f outside. So for now I am going to agree with you that perhaps the temps are right on where they should be.
I have 2 Ford OEM thermostats and neither of them open fully in boiling water. Given that, the one in the engine right now should not be fully opened either. So when summer comes around and the outside temp is 30 to 40 degrees hotter, I would think it should be ok..
So I guess it is back to why the stock gauge is not reading correctly.. from everything I have read, it should ideally be straight up between the R and M..