No start, extended crank, starts stalls and dies
12-30-2021, 10:58 AM
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No start, extended crank, starts stalls and dies
1994 Ford F-150 4.9l
Not my truck, attempting to fix the issues. I have some mechanical experience but I’m at a loss.
My friend bought the truck back from someone he knows. The previous owner had the same issue and the parts at it. He hollowed the converter thinking it was plugged causing the problem. He replaced various parts including the tps, fuel pump and filter. Egr and fuel pressure regulator looks to have been replaced as well.
The issue: it almost seems to be out of time to me. When tried to start, you have to crank forever, during this time you can hear backfire through the exhaust and intake. After a few seconds it will attempt to run and stall immediately. During that moment, the engine sounds decent.
my findings: compression 110 on all 6 cylinders
#1 plug was cracked, found when checking compression.
replaced all plugs to resistor, had platinums and very fouled.
Tested map sensors. At atmospheric pressure 155 htz and decreased under vacuum.
Tested coil with test light only. Have power and light pulses when cranked on trigger wire? Light is very dim and fast pulse. Assuming pickup is good in distributor and ignition module?
Im getting spark to all six cylinders, this is my only assumption that the module is good and the pick up? I have no way to properly test the pip signal to the module.
I guess I could take the ignition module and have the parts store test it and go from there as well. I don’t want to start throwing parts and hoping that solves the problem. I keep wanting to go back to the distributor….I haven’t read the codes yet if there is any. Truck arrived without a battery.
it also seems rich while cranking before start. Maybe over thinking if it’s a timing issue.
Also, thinking I should check to see if it may have jumped time?
Not my truck, attempting to fix the issues. I have some mechanical experience but I’m at a loss.
My friend bought the truck back from someone he knows. The previous owner had the same issue and the parts at it. He hollowed the converter thinking it was plugged causing the problem. He replaced various parts including the tps, fuel pump and filter. Egr and fuel pressure regulator looks to have been replaced as well.
The issue: it almost seems to be out of time to me. When tried to start, you have to crank forever, during this time you can hear backfire through the exhaust and intake. After a few seconds it will attempt to run and stall immediately. During that moment, the engine sounds decent.
my findings: compression 110 on all 6 cylinders
#1 plug was cracked, found when checking compression.
replaced all plugs to resistor, had platinums and very fouled.
Tested map sensors. At atmospheric pressure 155 htz and decreased under vacuum.
Tested coil with test light only. Have power and light pulses when cranked on trigger wire? Light is very dim and fast pulse. Assuming pickup is good in distributor and ignition module?
Im getting spark to all six cylinders, this is my only assumption that the module is good and the pick up? I have no way to properly test the pip signal to the module.
I guess I could take the ignition module and have the parts store test it and go from there as well. I don’t want to start throwing parts and hoping that solves the problem. I keep wanting to go back to the distributor….I haven’t read the codes yet if there is any. Truck arrived without a battery.
it also seems rich while cranking before start. Maybe over thinking if it’s a timing issue.
Also, thinking I should check to see if it may have jumped time?
12-30-2021, 02:43 PM
#2
Senior Member
Welcome to the site!
Checking timing is a relatively quick and low-cost and effort action, be sure to remove the SPOUT connector - a two-wire lead coming out from the distributor ending in a connection looking like it has a dummy plug - remove the plug during timing, and be sure to stick it securely back in when done - this enables / disables the computer-controlled timing corrections from base timing.
After this, suggest you have the right idea with the testing of the ignition module, and not shotgunning parts at the problem. There is a resistance spec for the coil and the PIP module in the distributor - my Chiltons manual listed the tolerances, but that manual is long gone with the truck. Getting the codes read would be another good move - not recalling when the switch was made to the current OBD-II, there is a sticky note in the Main section describing how to do it, as many places may no longer have the older OBD-I readers, if still applicable for your model year.
The 4.9L is gear-on-gear timing - no chain or belt. No experience with the 4.9L, but had a Ford 2.8L V6 with the same gear-on-gear setup, and when a gear failed, it was Game Over, not even close to starting or even sounding right turning over.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Checking timing is a relatively quick and low-cost and effort action, be sure to remove the SPOUT connector - a two-wire lead coming out from the distributor ending in a connection looking like it has a dummy plug - remove the plug during timing, and be sure to stick it securely back in when done - this enables / disables the computer-controlled timing corrections from base timing.
After this, suggest you have the right idea with the testing of the ignition module, and not shotgunning parts at the problem. There is a resistance spec for the coil and the PIP module in the distributor - my Chiltons manual listed the tolerances, but that manual is long gone with the truck. Getting the codes read would be another good move - not recalling when the switch was made to the current OBD-II, there is a sticky note in the Main section describing how to do it, as many places may no longer have the older OBD-I readers, if still applicable for your model year.
The 4.9L is gear-on-gear timing - no chain or belt. No experience with the 4.9L, but had a Ford 2.8L V6 with the same gear-on-gear setup, and when a gear failed, it was Game Over, not even close to starting or even sounding right turning over.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Last edited by wde3477; 12-30-2021 at 02:46 PM.
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bajaman (12-31-2021)
12-31-2021, 12:27 AM
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Welcome to the site!
Checking timing is a relatively quick and low-cost and effort action, be sure to remove the SPOUT connector - a two-wire lead coming out from the distributor ending in a connection looking like it has a dummy plug - remove the plug during timing, and be sure to stick it securely back in when done - this enables / disables the computer-controlled timing corrections from base timing.
After this, suggest you have the right idea with the testing of the ignition module, and not shotgunning parts at the problem. There is a resistance spec for the coil and the PIP module in the distributor - my Chiltons manual listed the tolerances, but that manual is long gone with the truck. Getting the codes read would be another good move - not recalling when the switch was made to the current OBD-II, there is a sticky note in the Main section describing how to do it, as many places may no longer have the older OBD-I readers, if still applicable for your model year.
The 4.9L is gear-on-gear timing - no chain or belt. No experience with the 4.9L, but had a Ford 2.8L V6 with the same gear-on-gear setup, and when a gear failed, it was Game Over, not even close to starting or even sounding right turning over.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Checking timing is a relatively quick and low-cost and effort action, be sure to remove the SPOUT connector - a two-wire lead coming out from the distributor ending in a connection looking like it has a dummy plug - remove the plug during timing, and be sure to stick it securely back in when done - this enables / disables the computer-controlled timing corrections from base timing.
After this, suggest you have the right idea with the testing of the ignition module, and not shotgunning parts at the problem. There is a resistance spec for the coil and the PIP module in the distributor - my Chiltons manual listed the tolerances, but that manual is long gone with the truck. Getting the codes read would be another good move - not recalling when the switch was made to the current OBD-II, there is a sticky note in the Main section describing how to do it, as many places may no longer have the older OBD-I readers, if still applicable for your model year.
The 4.9L is gear-on-gear timing - no chain or belt. No experience with the 4.9L, but had a Ford 2.8L V6 with the same gear-on-gear setup, and when a gear failed, it was Game Over, not even close to starting or even sounding right turning over.
Good luck and keep us posted.
obd2 started in 96, without a scan tool you use a jumper wire and Connect test connector to one of the pins on the connector. Unsure the pin off top of my head. Turn on switch and flashes check engine light for codes. I have a little tool that plugs in both connectors and flashes a light on the tool somewhere.
I can’t check the timing until I have the truck actually running. All one can do is get the engine tdc on compression stroke on number 1 cylinder and see if the rotor is pointed at #1 on the distributor cap to be in ballpark or see if it’s off. Then find out why.
but if I can check the pip module will change everything. The article made it out the only way to test the pip was with a led test light and watch for the signal
12-31-2021, 08:04 AM
#4
in the house
Well you know you have air, spark, and fuel so you have the three basics needed but...if out of time as you fear, it will never start. Reading your original post, it seems that the truck was starting to have issues...issues that led to a lot of shotgunning such as hollowing out the cat, etc. So, therein lies where I would go back to as much as possible, e.g. see if the previous owner can tell you when the truck last ran RIGHT, and if there was any sort of significant event related to the cause of the rough running. But it sounds like it WAS running, and then what...it just stopped and wouldn't start again?
01-02-2022, 06:24 PM
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