Engine Fan / Engine Performance 1989 F150 5.8l
07-20-2015, 12:16 PM
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
First off, the fan can't "SPEED UP" it's belt driven and can only possibly turn as fast as the drive belt is spinning it's pulley.
Second, when the clutch fails it allows the fan to sort of free spin, or not turn as fast as the belt is spinning the pulley, causing overheating issues at lower speeds.
Second, when the clutch fails it allows the fan to sort of free spin, or not turn as fast as the belt is spinning the pulley, causing overheating issues at lower speeds.
Awesome. So this is something I can deal with.
It probably is the fan clutch isn't it, that is causing the original running hot problem?
Fan clutch doesn't spin >>>
fan doesn't get up to speed >>>
engine runs hot >>>
pressure builds in system >>>
water overflows into reservoir >>>
water continually goes into reservoir and reservoir overflows >>>
coolant is lost >>>
truck gets warmer because fan isn't spinning correctly and is now low on coolant.
-Pat
07-20-2015, 12:43 PM
#23
1994 F150 XLT 5.8L 2wd
All mechanical fans spin when the engine is running, the clutch actually releases the fan so it doesn't spin as fast, controlled by a temperature ring that expands with heat and grabs so it spins at engine speed, as the ring cools it releases and allows the fan to spin slower than the pulley that it's bolted to.
07-20-2015, 07:15 PM
#24
Senior Member
Thread Starter
All mechanical fans spin when the engine is running, the clutch actually releases the fan so it doesn't spin as fast, controlled by a temperature ring that expands with heat and grabs so it spins at engine speed, as the ring cools it releases and allows the fan to spin slower than the pulley that it's bolted to.
-Pat
07-20-2015, 07:30 PM
#25
Senior Member
Since I didn't see it mentioned in here, I'll let you know about part of your cooling system in case you didn't already know. Water is pulled from the bottom of the radiator and returned in the upper radiator hose. The lower hose is what will collapse if your radiator is clogged. The upper hose will collapse if your thermostat is not opening up.
One thing to do since it's mostly water is drain your radiator (trying to recover most of the fluid), and flush your radiator with a garden hose. Might as well do your heater core as well since you'll have hoses disconnected. As old as your truck is, it's probably due for it.
Next thing I would check is your fins on your radiator. You can buy a radiator comb through most auto parts stores. You should be able to see through these fins for the most part. If there's enough blockage it could cause you to overheat as well.
Lastly, the mix of coolant and water will help pull heat from your engine faster than water alone. Water has a lower boiling point than properly mixed antifreeze. That means it won't boil in your engine causing air pockets in your cooling system. 50/50 mix is a standrd safe mix, but you can adjust it one way or the other to compensate for higher temperatures or lower temperatures.
You're troubleshooting the system correctly taking it 1 component at a time. Good luck.
One thing to do since it's mostly water is drain your radiator (trying to recover most of the fluid), and flush your radiator with a garden hose. Might as well do your heater core as well since you'll have hoses disconnected. As old as your truck is, it's probably due for it.
Next thing I would check is your fins on your radiator. You can buy a radiator comb through most auto parts stores. You should be able to see through these fins for the most part. If there's enough blockage it could cause you to overheat as well.
Lastly, the mix of coolant and water will help pull heat from your engine faster than water alone. Water has a lower boiling point than properly mixed antifreeze. That means it won't boil in your engine causing air pockets in your cooling system. 50/50 mix is a standrd safe mix, but you can adjust it one way or the other to compensate for higher temperatures or lower temperatures.
You're troubleshooting the system correctly taking it 1 component at a time. Good luck.
07-20-2015, 10:12 PM
#26
I read this entire thread and have some thoughts and advice.
Temp gauge readings... when you're real low on coolant, the gauge will fluctuate like you've seen it do because of air bubbles that form in the spaces where there should be coolant. When you see your gauge fluctuating up and down real fast, that's your sign you're dangerously low on coolant.
Losing coolant... well there's only two places coolant can go, either outside on the ground or inside the engine in places where it shouldn't be. If you don't see a leak even when watching from underneath then you're losing coolant into the crankcase or combustion chambers. First check your oil, if it looks like a milkshake then that's where your coolant is going. Stop driving the truck right away if you see this, you have a leaking engine oil cooler, blown head gasket, blown timing cover gasket, cracked timing cover, or cracked block or heads. Reason the timing components are involved are because on the Windsor motors the water pump passages go THRU the timing cover. If you don't find coolant in your oil then it's going into the combustion chambers (cylinders) and that can be verified with a compression tester or leakdown tester. If you need help using these there's several videos on YouTube showing you how. Sometimes it will be quite obvious if you're burning coolant... does your engine blow white exhaust smoke? Hard to start initially, like one or more cylinders are full of liquid? The only other place it *might* go is into an automatic transmission, because the transmission oil cooler is located in the radiator side tank (the steel lines in the last pic you posted are for transmission cooling) and if it leaks then coolant can eventually make it's way into your auto trans and then it's rebuild time. So check your trans oil too, just to be safe.
Fan... my 96 has the fan further into the shroud, there is only maybe 3/4" of blades not covered by it. I would imagine that your 89 should be the same way.
Reservoir... okay the way it's supposed to work is when the cooling system is cold the spring-loaded valve in the radiator cap (that's the thing on the bottom of it) is sealing off the overflow port that connects to the reservoir. As the coolant heats up, it expands like any liquid does when it gets hot. This expansion creates pressure in the cooling system, which is done on purpose because pressurizing a fluid will raise it's boiling point (the temperature at which it boils). When the pressure in the cooling system reaches a preset pressure (13 lbs as stamped on your radiator cap) then the cap opens up the overflow port and coolant flows into the overflow tank until pressure drops enough to close the cap again. When you shut the engine off, the coolant starts cooling down and this creates a vacuum in the system, which pulls right thru the radiator cap and sucks the overflowed coolant back into the radiator. Now, if you overheat the engine then the coolant gets hot, pops the overflow valve on the cap open, and it goes into the overflow tank. This tank can only hold so much, and with the engine constantly overheating the tank is constantly filling until it eventually runs over. Coolant has to escape somewhere so it just leaks out the (non sealed) reservoir cap. The reservoir does not actually do any drawing of coolant as you say.
Randomly down on power... no idea. Fix the temperature issue first, then worry bout getting her running right. Did you check for fault codes in the computer? That might give you a clue as to where that problem is.
So... I would start with checking the oil in the engine and trans, then do a compression test on all eight cylinders. You don't want a variation of more than 10% between highest and lowest readings, but what you're really looking for is one that has real low compression, OR two next to each other with low compression. That would be a POSSIBLE blown head gasket or cracked head/block. To double check you can do a leakdown test, this just blows air into the cylinder and you can listen at the intake, exhaust, crankcase, and radiator to find out where the air is leaking out.
Temp gauge readings... when you're real low on coolant, the gauge will fluctuate like you've seen it do because of air bubbles that form in the spaces where there should be coolant. When you see your gauge fluctuating up and down real fast, that's your sign you're dangerously low on coolant.
Losing coolant... well there's only two places coolant can go, either outside on the ground or inside the engine in places where it shouldn't be. If you don't see a leak even when watching from underneath then you're losing coolant into the crankcase or combustion chambers. First check your oil, if it looks like a milkshake then that's where your coolant is going. Stop driving the truck right away if you see this, you have a leaking engine oil cooler, blown head gasket, blown timing cover gasket, cracked timing cover, or cracked block or heads. Reason the timing components are involved are because on the Windsor motors the water pump passages go THRU the timing cover. If you don't find coolant in your oil then it's going into the combustion chambers (cylinders) and that can be verified with a compression tester or leakdown tester. If you need help using these there's several videos on YouTube showing you how. Sometimes it will be quite obvious if you're burning coolant... does your engine blow white exhaust smoke? Hard to start initially, like one or more cylinders are full of liquid? The only other place it *might* go is into an automatic transmission, because the transmission oil cooler is located in the radiator side tank (the steel lines in the last pic you posted are for transmission cooling) and if it leaks then coolant can eventually make it's way into your auto trans and then it's rebuild time. So check your trans oil too, just to be safe.
Fan... my 96 has the fan further into the shroud, there is only maybe 3/4" of blades not covered by it. I would imagine that your 89 should be the same way.
Reservoir... okay the way it's supposed to work is when the cooling system is cold the spring-loaded valve in the radiator cap (that's the thing on the bottom of it) is sealing off the overflow port that connects to the reservoir. As the coolant heats up, it expands like any liquid does when it gets hot. This expansion creates pressure in the cooling system, which is done on purpose because pressurizing a fluid will raise it's boiling point (the temperature at which it boils). When the pressure in the cooling system reaches a preset pressure (13 lbs as stamped on your radiator cap) then the cap opens up the overflow port and coolant flows into the overflow tank until pressure drops enough to close the cap again. When you shut the engine off, the coolant starts cooling down and this creates a vacuum in the system, which pulls right thru the radiator cap and sucks the overflowed coolant back into the radiator. Now, if you overheat the engine then the coolant gets hot, pops the overflow valve on the cap open, and it goes into the overflow tank. This tank can only hold so much, and with the engine constantly overheating the tank is constantly filling until it eventually runs over. Coolant has to escape somewhere so it just leaks out the (non sealed) reservoir cap. The reservoir does not actually do any drawing of coolant as you say.
Randomly down on power... no idea. Fix the temperature issue first, then worry bout getting her running right. Did you check for fault codes in the computer? That might give you a clue as to where that problem is.
So... I would start with checking the oil in the engine and trans, then do a compression test on all eight cylinders. You don't want a variation of more than 10% between highest and lowest readings, but what you're really looking for is one that has real low compression, OR two next to each other with low compression. That would be a POSSIBLE blown head gasket or cracked head/block. To double check you can do a leakdown test, this just blows air into the cylinder and you can listen at the intake, exhaust, crankcase, and radiator to find out where the air is leaking out.
What are your thoughts on this? My mechanic who is a journeyman at Ford believes my radiator is getting transmission in it from the radiator. Do you think any of that is getting into the transmission? I I looked at the fluid and it looks new and light pink. The system was flushed about 6 months ago and now you can see a thin film of oil coming back in the coolant. Another fun thing is it seems like it's losing coolant but it doesn't smoke and I don't see a leak either. I'm hoping a new radiator will fix both problems. Before I had it flushed I stuck a paper towel down In the reservoir and it was definitely slick like oil but did not smell like oil. I'm gonna get a new radiator bc it does needs one and gonna put on an electric fan at the same time but in the meantime he says the pressure of the trans line would be greater than the radiator pressure so the coolant wouldn't be able to enter the transmission. What are your thoughts? Thanks for all the good info you provided here too
Last edited by choate; 07-20-2015 at 10:20 PM.
07-20-2015, 10:22 PM
#27
I would look into doing an e fan. I've been gathering parts. I think it's worth it. Especially since it sounds like you're clutch fan isn't working. Let me know if I can help you on that. I still haven't got it all figured out but most of it. I do.
07-21-2015, 09:41 AM
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I guess to answer your question first, yes, I have thought about it, but didn't want to spend the extra money to swap out to a 3g alternator. I may have to however.
Well what's funny about this, and I didn't want to post about it yet, however I may have found the sluggish performance issue. I'm just not sure if this is the exact problem.
I had a low battery light on the truck on the way home last night after driving for about 45 minutes (car didn't run hot lol). Battery voltage was 12.4 volts, when turning on the car (no accessories) it dropped to 12.04 volts immediately.
I started looking around everywhere, and as I was standing there befuddled, all of a sudden something turned on/off in the engine bay, and whammo, 14.07 volts being measured. It's almost like the alternator isn't spinning correctly, and then it started going full speed. I haven't been able to reproduce this as it's been working fine, but I'm wondering if that is my sluggish performance issue. More to come on this.
Gotta love these old trucks. Can't live with them, can't live without them.
-Pat
Well what's funny about this, and I didn't want to post about it yet, however I may have found the sluggish performance issue. I'm just not sure if this is the exact problem.
I had a low battery light on the truck on the way home last night after driving for about 45 minutes (car didn't run hot lol). Battery voltage was 12.4 volts, when turning on the car (no accessories) it dropped to 12.04 volts immediately.
I started looking around everywhere, and as I was standing there befuddled, all of a sudden something turned on/off in the engine bay, and whammo, 14.07 volts being measured. It's almost like the alternator isn't spinning correctly, and then it started going full speed. I haven't been able to reproduce this as it's been working fine, but I'm wondering if that is my sluggish performance issue. More to come on this.
Gotta love these old trucks. Can't live with them, can't live without them.
-Pat
07-27-2015, 09:06 PM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm still waiting on the fan clutch part to possibly resolve the running hot issue, but I did find out something about the alternator today.
The alternator tested fine when taking it to an auto parts store, but the dreaded 2g "fireplug" looked like it had overheated at some point (I see this on certain pinball machines a lot). So I was figuring since the alternator was outputting correctly, there is no reason the battery shouldn't be getting that voltage, so it's probably the connector.
Now of course with a 2g alternator, I have to upgrade to the 3g 130amp model. So still working on this until I get the fan clutch part.
-Pat
The alternator tested fine when taking it to an auto parts store, but the dreaded 2g "fireplug" looked like it had overheated at some point (I see this on certain pinball machines a lot). So I was figuring since the alternator was outputting correctly, there is no reason the battery shouldn't be getting that voltage, so it's probably the connector.
Now of course with a 2g alternator, I have to upgrade to the 3g 130amp model. So still working on this until I get the fan clutch part.
-Pat
07-28-2015, 07:29 AM
#30
1994 F150 XLT 5.8L 2wd
To answer a previous question on how to tell if the clutch is shot, you spin the blade by hand (with the engine off for all of the mental midgets out there) if it goes more than a few inches before stopping then the clutch is not functioning properly.
I got my 3g 130 from rockauto for $110 shipped, it was the TYC brand. Here is a 5% off coupon code they sent me: 3344200729470005
Just enter it in the how did you here about us box in the CART window. It's good until the 6th of September.
I can't stress how much happier I am with the 130amp, I did the E-fan conversion {with a fan from an 04 sebring, a $20 temp controller, and a couple of junkyard relays. Had some inline fuses laying around from previous stereo system installs so all together cost me about $70 out of pocket}, have HID projector headlights, a 10" sub, and some extra interior lighting. I can run my AC, lights, fan, and have the stereo cranked while sitting at a stoplight and nothing dims.
I got my 3g 130 from rockauto for $110 shipped, it was the TYC brand. Here is a 5% off coupon code they sent me: 3344200729470005
Just enter it in the how did you here about us box in the CART window. It's good until the 6th of September.
I can't stress how much happier I am with the 130amp, I did the E-fan conversion {with a fan from an 04 sebring, a $20 temp controller, and a couple of junkyard relays. Had some inline fuses laying around from previous stereo system installs so all together cost me about $70 out of pocket}, have HID projector headlights, a 10" sub, and some extra interior lighting. I can run my AC, lights, fan, and have the stereo cranked while sitting at a stoplight and nothing dims.