A bit of info for those looking to build 300+hp 5.0L/302s
02-05-2017, 06:01 PM
#51
Computer question
With your suggested cam and head options, would the computer need a new profile to work properly?
Thanks, great write up!
Thanks, great write up!
The goal of this thread is to serve as a guide for those individuals looking to make upgrades. Some of this is fact, some of this is from experience and some of this is purely my opinion.
This is in no way, the end all, be all of engine building that you’ll ever need and I strongly encourage you to research as much as you can prior to investing a single dime into your engine.
My idea of a great truck engine build is an engine that has superb low end torque and pulls through the power band without breaking a sweat.
So, with that being said, max HP numbers at 5000+ RPMs are out of the window. I am concerned with what happens from idle to about 5000 RPMs.
As far as HP rating, what I’m describing below should get you in the 300hp range depending on how far you go with your upgrades.
With this being said, let's get started.
From 1987 to 1991, these engines came with flat tappet camshafts that had the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order.
From 1992 to 1993, these engines came with roller camshafts that had the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order.
From 1994 to 1996, these engines came with roller camshafts that had the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order.
Regarding the 1987 to 1993 engines, the weak point in these engines from a HP/TQ perspective was clearly the camshaft. The camshaft specs were abysmal at best.
Regarding the 1994-1996 engines, the camshaft was upgraded and is the same camshaft that is used in the 1996-2001 5.0 HO Explorer engines. It isn’t the greatest camshaft, but it was a significant upgrade from the 1987-1993 camshafts.
With regards to what will give these engines better HP/TQ, I will focus mainly on three areas: Heads, Intake and Camshaft.
Camshaft: This is the first piece of the puzzle that you should consider upgrading. The factory camshaft as I’ve mentioned before is abysmal at best.
’93 Earlier Trucks: If your truck is ’93 or earlier, your engine runs on a setup called Speed Density. Basically, what this means in the simplest of terms for this discussion is that your MAP sensor needs to see a certain amount of vacuum in order for your engine to run properly. There are three off the shelf camshafts that should work in your truck without having to upgrade your engine setup to Mass Air (which I’ll cover shortly).
Three camshafts that should work with Speed Density are:
Comp Cams: 35-512-8 | Has the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order, but you can get Comp Cams to custom ground it to the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order if you want to keep the stock firing order. I will cover changing the firing order below.
Comp Cams: 35-349-8 | Has the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order, but you can get Comp Cams to custom ground it to the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order if you want to keep the stock firing order.
Crane Cams: 364211 | Has the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order.
I want to note that these three camshafts are roller camshafts. I strongly recommend upgrading your camshaft to a roller camshaft since your truck came with a roller block (even though pre-92 trucks came with a flat tappet camshaft).
If all you want to do with your truck is upgrade the stock engine a little bit and have a broader powerband, in my opinion, a simple camshaft swap with one of the 3 aforementioned cams will get you where you want to be.
Regarding the firing order and injector order, the 302/5.0L Speed Density setup will work with either firing order. The only thing that is required is changing the order of the spark plug wires if you go with the “1-3” firing order. Changing the injector wires is NOT required if you go with the “1-3” firing order.
’94 and later trucks: If your truck is a ’94 or later truck, your engine setup is called Mass Air. Basically, what this means for this conversation is that you have the flexibility to run a more aggressive camshaft that has less vacuum without drivability issues. Your engine is also able to be tuned to work perfectly with your camshaft. Regarding the speed density camshafts above, they will work just fine with your setup, but it is my opinion that if you are running Mass Air, you should install a custom ground camshaft in your truck that was made specifically for YOUR setup. Usually, they are about $50 more than an off the shelf cam. What I’m saying is that you have all the potential in the world, so maximize it!!!
Mustang Camshaft Note: I do not care how hard a B303, E303, Z303 or any other Mustang camshaft pulls in a Mustang. It is not a TRUCK camshaft and has no place in a truck. A Mustang camshaft in a truck causes you to lose low end torque, which is what a truck needs. This is because F-150s are much heavier than Mustangs and therefore, require a different powerband than a Mustang, which means your engine setup needs to be totally different.
This is not a set in stone, but a rule of thumb is that a camshaft with an intake duration higher than 215 is not a good fit for a truck. Usually, Mustang camshafts are much higher than this.
Heads:
Our trucks came with what are known as “E7” heads. These are another weak spot on our engines. You have a few options here. The main goal is to keep the intake runner size at about 170cc’s or less and you’ll have something that pulls pretty good.
Heads to consider for our truck are:
Cast Iron GT40 Heads | Note: ‘95-earlier GT40 heads have smog ports. ’96-later GT40 heads DO NOT have smog ports. If your build requires you to consider emissions, this is something you need to take into consideration. If your heads came off a Lightning, you’ll need reducer washers for proper fitment.
GT40p Heads | Note: These heads have a different spark plug angle, which will require headers that clear the spark plugs. Also, GT40p heads DO NOT have smog ports. Once again, something to consider if your build requires you to take emissions into consideration.
For both the GT40 and GT40p heads, I STRONGLY suggest upgrading the valve springs. Using the manufacturer recommended springs for your camshaft are a safe bet.
AFR 165 Heads | Have options for pedestal mounted rocker arms or stud mounted rocker arms. They also have emissions legal heads as well.
Trick Flow 170cc Heads – Will require stud mounted rocker arms. They have an emissions legal head available.
Brodix ST 5.0 Heads or Brodix ST 5.0R Heads | These have the smog ports as well. The ST 5.0 are the pedestal mounted heads and the ST 5.0R are the stud mounted heads.
There are other heads that I didn’t list, but I feel like these are either the most economical heads or the best quality or the most “powerful” heads or a combination of all of the above.
With regards to stud mounted heads, you will need to make changes to your valve covers or get taller valve covers. Taller valve covers may require you to purchase an intake spacer as well. These are things to consider. If you keep your stock pedestal mounted rocker arms, you can reuse the stock valve covers. Aftermarket pedestal mounted roller rockers may require valve cover changes as mentioned above for stud mounted rocker arms.
Intake Manifold: The 302/5.0L stock intake manifold is actually a great piece. It is the best flowing fuel injected factory 302/5.0 intake Ford ever made. The only thing you’ll need to do to your intake is port the lower to match the port size of the cylinder heads if you are upgrading your heads. This will save you a ton of money.
What this means is that the truck intake is better than a 5.0 HO Intake, a 5.0 Cobra/GT40/Explorer Intake or any other 5.0 intake that Ford built.
Edelbrock makes an aftermarket intake for our trucks and if you feel the need to upgrade your intake, this is the way to go. However, it is my opinion that your money would be best spent elsewhere because the stock truck intake is just that good when ported. If you want the absolute maximum amount of power and cost is not an issue, the Edelbrock truck intake is the way to go.
Other Factors to Consider:
Distributor: If your truck did not come with a roller camshaft, you will need to either install a steel gear on your distributor or buy a new distributor that has a steel gear. A distributor for a car that came with a 302/5.0L will work. Look for ’91-earlier car distributors.
Transmission: If you upgrade your engine, your transmission will require an upgrade as well or you will likely blow something to pieces. Reason being is that your transmission was not built to handle the amount of HP/TQ you will be making. So, what I’m saying is budget for a new transmission because I haven’t seen a case yet in which this didn’t happen.
Throttle Body: BBK makes a 56mm and 61mm throttle body. If you feel the need to upgrade the throttle body, go with the 56mm and make sure you polish (or Dremel) the area that the IAC valve goes to eliminate any whistling noises due to uneven surfaces. It needs to have a smooth surface.
IAC Bypass Plate: A larger camshaft means more airflow might be required at idle. You may need to order this to prevent your truck from either surging at idle or shutting off at idle. This should be part of your initial parts list in my opinion.
Crate Engines: Crate engines that advertise 350-400+ HP are more than likely not built for trucks. They are built for lightweight cars, such as Mustangs. You should look at the HP/TQ band with a very critical eye. However, there are crate engines that are built for trucks and reputable builders that can build a crate engine for a truck.
This is in no way, the end all, be all of engine building that you’ll ever need and I strongly encourage you to research as much as you can prior to investing a single dime into your engine.
My idea of a great truck engine build is an engine that has superb low end torque and pulls through the power band without breaking a sweat.
So, with that being said, max HP numbers at 5000+ RPMs are out of the window. I am concerned with what happens from idle to about 5000 RPMs.
As far as HP rating, what I’m describing below should get you in the 300hp range depending on how far you go with your upgrades.
With this being said, let's get started.
From 1987 to 1991, these engines came with flat tappet camshafts that had the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order.
From 1992 to 1993, these engines came with roller camshafts that had the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order.
From 1994 to 1996, these engines came with roller camshafts that had the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order.
Regarding the 1987 to 1993 engines, the weak point in these engines from a HP/TQ perspective was clearly the camshaft. The camshaft specs were abysmal at best.
Regarding the 1994-1996 engines, the camshaft was upgraded and is the same camshaft that is used in the 1996-2001 5.0 HO Explorer engines. It isn’t the greatest camshaft, but it was a significant upgrade from the 1987-1993 camshafts.
With regards to what will give these engines better HP/TQ, I will focus mainly on three areas: Heads, Intake and Camshaft.
Camshaft: This is the first piece of the puzzle that you should consider upgrading. The factory camshaft as I’ve mentioned before is abysmal at best.
’93 Earlier Trucks: If your truck is ’93 or earlier, your engine runs on a setup called Speed Density. Basically, what this means in the simplest of terms for this discussion is that your MAP sensor needs to see a certain amount of vacuum in order for your engine to run properly. There are three off the shelf camshafts that should work in your truck without having to upgrade your engine setup to Mass Air (which I’ll cover shortly).
Three camshafts that should work with Speed Density are:
Comp Cams: 35-512-8 | Has the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order, but you can get Comp Cams to custom ground it to the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order if you want to keep the stock firing order. I will cover changing the firing order below.
Comp Cams: 35-349-8 | Has the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order, but you can get Comp Cams to custom ground it to the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order if you want to keep the stock firing order.
Crane Cams: 364211 | Has the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order.
I want to note that these three camshafts are roller camshafts. I strongly recommend upgrading your camshaft to a roller camshaft since your truck came with a roller block (even though pre-92 trucks came with a flat tappet camshaft).
If all you want to do with your truck is upgrade the stock engine a little bit and have a broader powerband, in my opinion, a simple camshaft swap with one of the 3 aforementioned cams will get you where you want to be.
Regarding the firing order and injector order, the 302/5.0L Speed Density setup will work with either firing order. The only thing that is required is changing the order of the spark plug wires if you go with the “1-3” firing order. Changing the injector wires is NOT required if you go with the “1-3” firing order.
’94 and later trucks: If your truck is a ’94 or later truck, your engine setup is called Mass Air. Basically, what this means for this conversation is that you have the flexibility to run a more aggressive camshaft that has less vacuum without drivability issues. Your engine is also able to be tuned to work perfectly with your camshaft. Regarding the speed density camshafts above, they will work just fine with your setup, but it is my opinion that if you are running Mass Air, you should install a custom ground camshaft in your truck that was made specifically for YOUR setup. Usually, they are about $50 more than an off the shelf cam. What I’m saying is that you have all the potential in the world, so maximize it!!!
Mustang Camshaft Note: I do not care how hard a B303, E303, Z303 or any other Mustang camshaft pulls in a Mustang. It is not a TRUCK camshaft and has no place in a truck. A Mustang camshaft in a truck causes you to lose low end torque, which is what a truck needs. This is because F-150s are much heavier than Mustangs and therefore, require a different powerband than a Mustang, which means your engine setup needs to be totally different.
This is not a set in stone, but a rule of thumb is that a camshaft with an intake duration higher than 215 is not a good fit for a truck. Usually, Mustang camshafts are much higher than this.
Heads:
Our trucks came with what are known as “E7” heads. These are another weak spot on our engines. You have a few options here. The main goal is to keep the intake runner size at about 170cc’s or less and you’ll have something that pulls pretty good.
Heads to consider for our truck are:
Cast Iron GT40 Heads | Note: ‘95-earlier GT40 heads have smog ports. ’96-later GT40 heads DO NOT have smog ports. If your build requires you to consider emissions, this is something you need to take into consideration. If your heads came off a Lightning, you’ll need reducer washers for proper fitment.
GT40p Heads | Note: These heads have a different spark plug angle, which will require headers that clear the spark plugs. Also, GT40p heads DO NOT have smog ports. Once again, something to consider if your build requires you to take emissions into consideration.
For both the GT40 and GT40p heads, I STRONGLY suggest upgrading the valve springs. Using the manufacturer recommended springs for your camshaft are a safe bet.
AFR 165 Heads | Have options for pedestal mounted rocker arms or stud mounted rocker arms. They also have emissions legal heads as well.
Trick Flow 170cc Heads – Will require stud mounted rocker arms. They have an emissions legal head available.
Brodix ST 5.0 Heads or Brodix ST 5.0R Heads | These have the smog ports as well. The ST 5.0 are the pedestal mounted heads and the ST 5.0R are the stud mounted heads.
There are other heads that I didn’t list, but I feel like these are either the most economical heads or the best quality or the most “powerful” heads or a combination of all of the above.
With regards to stud mounted heads, you will need to make changes to your valve covers or get taller valve covers. Taller valve covers may require you to purchase an intake spacer as well. These are things to consider. If you keep your stock pedestal mounted rocker arms, you can reuse the stock valve covers. Aftermarket pedestal mounted roller rockers may require valve cover changes as mentioned above for stud mounted rocker arms.
Intake Manifold: The 302/5.0L stock intake manifold is actually a great piece. It is the best flowing fuel injected factory 302/5.0 intake Ford ever made. The only thing you’ll need to do to your intake is port the lower to match the port size of the cylinder heads if you are upgrading your heads. This will save you a ton of money.
What this means is that the truck intake is better than a 5.0 HO Intake, a 5.0 Cobra/GT40/Explorer Intake or any other 5.0 intake that Ford built.
Edelbrock makes an aftermarket intake for our trucks and if you feel the need to upgrade your intake, this is the way to go. However, it is my opinion that your money would be best spent elsewhere because the stock truck intake is just that good when ported. If you want the absolute maximum amount of power and cost is not an issue, the Edelbrock truck intake is the way to go.
Other Factors to Consider:
Distributor: If your truck did not come with a roller camshaft, you will need to either install a steel gear on your distributor or buy a new distributor that has a steel gear. A distributor for a car that came with a 302/5.0L will work. Look for ’91-earlier car distributors.
Transmission: If you upgrade your engine, your transmission will require an upgrade as well or you will likely blow something to pieces. Reason being is that your transmission was not built to handle the amount of HP/TQ you will be making. So, what I’m saying is budget for a new transmission because I haven’t seen a case yet in which this didn’t happen.
Throttle Body: BBK makes a 56mm and 61mm throttle body. If you feel the need to upgrade the throttle body, go with the 56mm and make sure you polish (or Dremel) the area that the IAC valve goes to eliminate any whistling noises due to uneven surfaces. It needs to have a smooth surface.
IAC Bypass Plate: A larger camshaft means more airflow might be required at idle. You may need to order this to prevent your truck from either surging at idle or shutting off at idle. This should be part of your initial parts list in my opinion.
Crate Engines: Crate engines that advertise 350-400+ HP are more than likely not built for trucks. They are built for lightweight cars, such as Mustangs. You should look at the HP/TQ band with a very critical eye. However, there are crate engines that are built for trucks and reputable builders that can build a crate engine for a truck.
02-08-2017, 06:01 AM
#52
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Speed Density computers do not need modifications the profiles I've laid out. The only thing that you need to 100% do is ensure you get the IAC bypass plate I mentioned.
02-22-2017, 03:52 AM
#53
Appreciate you taking the time to do this write up.
this info is priceless.
I will be building a 302 for my 94 f150 4x4.
the only problem is I was in hurry when I bought a parts truck mainly for the bed,
but I ended up putting the 3.08 axles on it. not a good combo with 35" tires.
I still have the 3.55 axles but some issues with them. Ball joints, lockers, etc.. pretty wore out.
I've been driving mine with a blown head gasket for at least 50,000 miles as far as I know maybe more. the truck has over 300,000 miles I bought in 96 with 67,000 miles.
oil in the cooling system, coolant in the oil, now its leaking all over the ground. dip stick rusted in half. still runs great, but I need to rebuild it. I fear the block, and/or heads may be damaged so I plan on getting a short, or long block from a salvage.
If the block, and heads end up being ok, I may build a second one.
this info is priceless.
I will be building a 302 for my 94 f150 4x4.
the only problem is I was in hurry when I bought a parts truck mainly for the bed,
but I ended up putting the 3.08 axles on it. not a good combo with 35" tires.
I still have the 3.55 axles but some issues with them. Ball joints, lockers, etc.. pretty wore out.
I've been driving mine with a blown head gasket for at least 50,000 miles as far as I know maybe more. the truck has over 300,000 miles I bought in 96 with 67,000 miles.
oil in the cooling system, coolant in the oil, now its leaking all over the ground. dip stick rusted in half. still runs great, but I need to rebuild it. I fear the block, and/or heads may be damaged so I plan on getting a short, or long block from a salvage.
If the block, and heads end up being ok, I may build a second one.
02-22-2017, 10:25 AM
#54
Senior Member
Thread Starter
In my opinion, the best way to go is to find an engine block from a salvage yard, put it on an engine stand, build it over time and swap the engines over a weekend once it's done.
As a side note, you've just given me a really good idea for a really good addition to this thread.
Stay tuned.......
As a side note, you've just given me a really good idea for a really good addition to this thread.
Stay tuned.......
The following 2 users liked this post by qdeezie:
Mr_Scary (02-22-2017),
Patriotic Oath (04-18-2020)
02-22-2017, 11:24 AM
#55
Header clearance
I have PaceSetter long tube Headers and after doing some research I have found that these heads AFR 165cc SBF Renegade 20 Degree Street/Strip Heads 1399 will work best with the headers I have and are a direct out of the box replacement for my stock E7 heads. From what I have read on there web site they use the OEM mold from ford to cast there heads than machine them to there specs. They also CNC machine the intake and exaust runners/Ports and the combustion chambers. The exaust ports are in the same location as the OEM E7 heads so there will be no issiues with header clearance. I am going with the non emissions heads because I removed the air injection tube when I installed the headers. Hope this info helps.
02-22-2017, 05:49 PM
#56
I think that is the best idea.
and will be more fun that way.
Plus I can save money and spend it on quality parts.
I may go ahead and do a quick and dirty head gasket/valve job so I can keep going this summer. I have a 160 thermostat to keep it cold so all the coolant does'nt blow by, and out. probably why it has made it this far. Plus I keep the oil changed, and only add full 50/50 coolant (I mix my own from 100%), never just water. I do a proper flush every year.
and will be more fun that way.
Plus I can save money and spend it on quality parts.
I may go ahead and do a quick and dirty head gasket/valve job so I can keep going this summer. I have a 160 thermostat to keep it cold so all the coolant does'nt blow by, and out. probably why it has made it this far. Plus I keep the oil changed, and only add full 50/50 coolant (I mix my own from 100%), never just water. I do a proper flush every year.
02-23-2017, 06:42 AM
#57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I made a suggestion earlier that the best approach is to get an engine block out of a salvage yard or wherever and place it on an engine stand and build it over time. To be more specific, you need to get a ROLLER engine block. Usually 87-up engine blocks fit this requirement.
If buying an engine out of a non-F150 (or Bronco), here is what you will need to swap from the old engine over to the new engine block to make it a seamless transition:
A few minor things thing to note about this potential engine you'll be placing on the stand:
If buying an engine out of a non-F150 (or Bronco), here is what you will need to swap from the old engine over to the new engine block to make it a seamless transition:
- Lower Intake Manifold
- Timing Cover (include the Harmonic Balancer here as well)
- Valve Covers
- Oil Pan
- Exhaust Manifolds (if you aren't running headers)
A few minor things thing to note about this potential engine you'll be placing on the stand:
- Make sure it has been tapped for a knock sensor. If your truck has one and it is functioning, it's a nice feature to be able to carry this over. I believe some of the later 302 blocks might not be tapped for this. I have NOT confirmed this. It is just a suspicion that they might not have it.
- All oil pans are not created equal. Some aftermarket oil pans are smaller and use a different sized drain plug. Ask me how do I know. Be very careful about where you get your oil pan from or you'll have less oil capacity than the OEM pan. Do a side by side comparison of the old pan vs new pan if possible. I'd even go as far as to say fill them both up with water (prior to installing) to ensure they hold the same amount. Name brand oil pans tend to have OEM capacity. Internet no-name brand pans don't. The drain plug is a different size as well, so if you bought a magnetic drain plug, that won't work either. So, be careful and spend the extra money for name brand or OEM.
Last edited by qdeezie; 02-23-2017 at 06:59 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Patriotic Oath (04-18-2020)
02-23-2017, 09:40 AM
#58
Senior Member
I have read this thread at least three times and I still learn new stuff each time. Good stuff.
Here's a question from a newbie - what do you recommend for a good engine stand?
Here's a question from a newbie - what do you recommend for a good engine stand?
02-23-2017, 02:32 PM
#59
Junior Member
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Gt40 spark plugs
im working on a 1996 f150 5.0 I'm swapping my heads with gt40s with scorpion 1.6 lifters and I'm doing a 35-510-8 comp cam among some other things does any one know what spark plugs I need and what the gap should be?? Thanks
Last edited by zfecht96; 02-23-2017 at 02:35 PM.
02-23-2017, 03:18 PM
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
More than likely Autolite 104 or 764 (or the Motorcraft equivalent). I prefer 104. As for the gap, no good answer exists other than start out with your stock gap and increase it incrementally until you notice a decrease in performance, then back it down to the gap size that was best. Grab a notebook and write down your observations for each gap if necessary.