'89 F-150 302 wont run smooth, getting frustrated..
10-16-2011, 09:30 PM
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'89 F-150 302 wont run smooth, getting frustrated..
Hello all, I'm trying to get my '89 F-150 XLT Lariat 4x4 302 4spd with 225k miles to run right to pass smog, and I have to admit, I'm getting quite frustrated.
Here's what it's doing:
The truck starts cold and idle jumps to ~1.5k RPMS like it should, but as soon as I blip the throttle, the RPMS come down to about 500 and surge as high as 1k RPMS and back down as low as 500 RPMS continuously even while the engine warms up to operating temperature. The engine shakes a little, and is running rich which is known via a sniffer.
No codes KOER or KOEO. Engine is MAP controlled. No air in the cooling system. Cleaned EGR. No Intake leaks.
Here's what ive replaced since I bought the truck.
Both Coolant Temperature Sensors (gauge wasn't working and I replaced the wrong sensor the first time, didn't know there was two)
Spark plugs (Really needed the tune up)
Wires
Cap + Rotor
Exhaust Manifold Gaskets (were both leaking like crazy)
Idle Air Control Valve (covered in oil)
Throttle Positon Sensor (also covered in oil)
Here's what I'm thinking about buying next:
Oxygen Sensor
Catalytic Converter (Original..)
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Opinions? Questions? Help? Please?
Here's what it's doing:
The truck starts cold and idle jumps to ~1.5k RPMS like it should, but as soon as I blip the throttle, the RPMS come down to about 500 and surge as high as 1k RPMS and back down as low as 500 RPMS continuously even while the engine warms up to operating temperature. The engine shakes a little, and is running rich which is known via a sniffer.
No codes KOER or KOEO. Engine is MAP controlled. No air in the cooling system. Cleaned EGR. No Intake leaks.
Here's what ive replaced since I bought the truck.
Both Coolant Temperature Sensors (gauge wasn't working and I replaced the wrong sensor the first time, didn't know there was two)
Spark plugs (Really needed the tune up)
Wires
Cap + Rotor
Exhaust Manifold Gaskets (were both leaking like crazy)
Idle Air Control Valve (covered in oil)
Throttle Positon Sensor (also covered in oil)
Here's what I'm thinking about buying next:
Oxygen Sensor
Catalytic Converter (Original..)
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Opinions? Questions? Help? Please?
Last edited by RedResistance; 10-16-2011 at 09:38 PM.
10-16-2011, 10:11 PM
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Clean & then test your IAC Solenoid valve, as per instructions on link: http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=39
Greatly effect's idle & does not produce a code, wether functioning properly or not.
Oxygen sensor. If you think it could be 60K miles or older, I'd replace it, but w/ no code showing, it may only be impeding max mpg. Drivability...not really.
Cat converter...does not fall into symptoms described.
FPR?... doubt it, but fuel pressure check at rail will tell you more.
Questioon: Did you disconnect the battery for a minimum of 5 minute to allow the KAM (Kept adaptive memory) to clear & rebuild after replacing sensor? Should have. No codes, if true, suggest you did.
Greatly effect's idle & does not produce a code, wether functioning properly or not.
Oxygen sensor. If you think it could be 60K miles or older, I'd replace it, but w/ no code showing, it may only be impeding max mpg. Drivability...not really.
Cat converter...does not fall into symptoms described.
FPR?... doubt it, but fuel pressure check at rail will tell you more.
Questioon: Did you disconnect the battery for a minimum of 5 minute to allow the KAM (Kept adaptive memory) to clear & rebuild after replacing sensor? Should have. No codes, if true, suggest you did.
10-16-2011, 10:24 PM
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Clean & then test your IAC Solenoid valve, as per instructions on link: http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=39
Greatly effect's idle & does not produce a code, wether functioning properly or not.
Oxygen sensor. If you think it could be 60K miles or older, I'd replace it, but w/ no code showing, it may only be impeding max mpg. Drivability...not really.
Cat converter...does not fall into symptoms described.
FPR?... doubt it, but fuel pressure check at rail will tell you more.
Questioon: Did you disconnect the battery for a minimum of 5 minute to allow the KAM (Kept adaptive memory) to clear & rebuild after replacing sensor? Should have. No codes, if true, suggest you did.
Greatly effect's idle & does not produce a code, wether functioning properly or not.
Oxygen sensor. If you think it could be 60K miles or older, I'd replace it, but w/ no code showing, it may only be impeding max mpg. Drivability...not really.
Cat converter...does not fall into symptoms described.
FPR?... doubt it, but fuel pressure check at rail will tell you more.
Questioon: Did you disconnect the battery for a minimum of 5 minute to allow the KAM (Kept adaptive memory) to clear & rebuild after replacing sensor? Should have. No codes, if true, suggest you did.
The IAC is new... like 20 miles on it new... Still should test it though right? I mention the Cat because I was planning on replacing it anyways as the purpose of this is to get the thing to pass smog. Didn't know about disconnecting the battery for a whole five mins.. I disconnected it for like two mins... I'm gonna go do that now.. Thanks for the help!
10-16-2011, 10:29 PM
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The IAC is new... like 20 miles on it new... Still should test it though right? I mention the Cat because I was planning on replacing it anyways as the purpose of this is to get the thing to pass smog. Didn't know about disconnecting the battery for a whole five mins.. I disconnected it for like two mins... I'm gonna go do that now.. Thanks for the help!
Has it failed smog already?
If so, do you have test #'s?
O2 age?
Mileage on truck?
Last edited by ymeski56; 10-16-2011 at 10:32 PM.
10-16-2011, 10:54 PM
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I dont have the test numbers I wish I'd gotten them as I have the lombada gas calc on my laptop nowwww. and sniffer is referring to the smog sniff that it failed. And you also missed that the truck has 225k. I also stated that I knew the truck was running rich... also the cat wasn't doing diddly squat about COs Thanks!
Last edited by RedResistance; 10-16-2011 at 11:16 PM.
10-16-2011, 11:23 PM
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225 miles? Cat replacement may be in the cards.
Sniff could be a couple things that cause failure. HC as well as CO
& NOX. Cat does have the final crack at those. O2 switching & not showing rich....could be the Cat's the weak link in passing smog.
Almost by default, Cat replacement usually guarantee's passing the next smog test. Not much will get by it. Then it's all about keeping the new one(s) healthy.
Combustion chamber Carbon deposits hoard hydrocarbons. So does older oil in crank case. Higher than 87 octane fuel is a big no-no.
CO & NOX, associated w/ high Combustion chamber temps.
Last edited by ymeski56; 10-16-2011 at 11:26 PM.
10-16-2011, 11:46 PM
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Long day.
225 miles? Cat replacement may be in the cards.
Sniff could be a couple things that cause failure. HC as well as CO
& NOX. Cat does have the final crack at those. O2 switching & not showing rich....could be the Cat's the weak link in passing smog.
Almost by default, Cat replacement usually guarantee's passing the next smog test. Not much will get by it. Then it's all about keeping the new one(s) healthy.
Combustion chamber Carbon deposits hoard hydrocarbons. So does older oil in crank case. Higher than 87 octane fuel is a big no-no.
CO & NOX, associated w/ high Combustion chamber temps.
225 miles? Cat replacement may be in the cards.
Sniff could be a couple things that cause failure. HC as well as CO
& NOX. Cat does have the final crack at those. O2 switching & not showing rich....could be the Cat's the weak link in passing smog.
Almost by default, Cat replacement usually guarantee's passing the next smog test. Not much will get by it. Then it's all about keeping the new one(s) healthy.
Combustion chamber Carbon deposits hoard hydrocarbons. So does older oil in crank case. Higher than 87 octane fuel is a big no-no.
CO & NOX, associated w/ high Combustion chamber temps.
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10-17-2011, 12:00 AM
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Honestly, after it passes smog I'm ripping everything smog related out of the truck... smog once for life in my county. If a new cat will help it pass smog with it idling like this.. then I'd just do it, but I don't think it's going to fix it as most 3-stage cats need the golden 14.7:1 or something very close to that in order to function properly.. I'm well aware how smog gases are produced in the combustion chamber and how the cat works, I am just not experienced with Fords. I was looking for opinions on a Ford related issue.. I'm still going to replace the cat anyway, but I don't want to take it in idling like this as I still don't think it'll pass. Thanks for your help though!
A new Cat won't cure a rough Idle.
I would add a can of Seafoam to a tank of gas.
If you've ruled out ignition system related, then quality of secondary fuel delivery is my bet. (Dirty injectors)
10-17-2011, 12:18 AM
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Of course a new cat wont clean up my idle... lol
I put in a full bottle of redline fuel system cleaner in a half tank of gas which is rich with Polyetheramine (PEA) which is what Techron is. No change. Ignition system is in good shape as far as I can tell, is there anything in perticular that Fords have trouble with in that area?
10-17-2011, 12:31 AM
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Of course a new cat wont clean up my idle... lol
I put in a full bottle of redline fuel system cleaner in a half tank of gas which is rich with Polyetheramine (PEA) which is what Techron is. No change. Ignition system is in good shape as far as I can tell, is there anything in perticular that Fords have trouble with in that area?
I put in a full bottle of redline fuel system cleaner in a half tank of gas which is rich with Polyetheramine (PEA) which is what Techron is. No change. Ignition system is in good shape as far as I can tell, is there anything in perticular that Fords have trouble with in that area?
See link:https://www.f150forum.com/f33/how-se...-1991-a-31505/
I would skid adding 1/3 to oil to disludge, unless planning on change prior to test.
